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#50 jezza

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 10:05 PM

420


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#51 Jinxit

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 10:26 PM

510

 

that's a new one, i chuckled


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#52 CivilWars

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 11:11 PM

As much as it pains me to say it Dog isn't terribly wrong. EVE has a people problem, and no amount of changes to game mechanics are going to fix that. Imagine how much different the sov null landscape would look if you were somehow limited to say 1k corp/alliance/blue list members. Yes, I know there would still be ways to circumvent it(once again player problem not mechanics), but people would get the local content they are looking for. Instead we choose to create massive blue lists, then cry there is nobody to shoot.

 

Fuck me. You got me to serious post.



#53 AsHenDo

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 11:44 PM

If eve nerds didn't put so much value into their bitcoin fueled pixel ships and their otech agreements this game would see a lot more action but then it would just be another CoD clone.

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#54 brainfire

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:41 AM

What they really need to remove is AFK cloaking. How is sov supposed to be worth anything when anyone can come and AFK cloak all day?


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#55 jezza

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 01:05 AM

As much as it pains me to say it Dog isn't terribly wrong. EVE has a people problem, and no amount of changes to game mechanics are going to fix that. Imagine how much different the sov null landscape would look if you were somehow limited to say 1k corp/alliance/blue list members. Yes, I know there would still be ways to circumvent it(once again player problem not mechanics), but people would get the local content they are looking for. Instead we choose to create massive blue lists, then cry there is nobody to shoot.

 

Fuck me. You got me to serious post.

no edits for old wars


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#56 Anderron Shi

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 07:33 AM


What they really need to remove is AFK cloaking. How is sov supposed to be worth anything when anyone can come and AFK cloak all day?

Yeah I guess you're right, never really thought of it like that...They could just implement a mechanic, like when you're a pirate in high sec and can't cloak, except link it to sov somehow.

#57 Talbrys Narentyr

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 10:48 AM

like when you're a pirate in high sec and can't cloak

This is a thing?


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#58 Inquisitor Kitchner

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 11:13 AM

As much as it pains me to say it Dog isn't terribly wrong. EVE has a people problem, and no amount of changes to game mechanics are going to fix that. Imagine how much different the sov null landscape would look if you were somehow limited to say 1k corp/alliance/blue list members. Yes, I know there would still be ways to circumvent it(once again player problem not mechanics), but people would get the local content they are looking for. Instead we choose to create massive blue lists, then cry there is nobody to shoot.

Fuck me. You got me to serious post.

It's because it's human instinct to form bigger and bigger social groups for protection.

If you have a game that is a sandbox and there's nothing stopping scaling up your resources then people will always eventually do this.

If you could only have 5 people in a system at one time for example, you could easily have a corp of 100 dudes and do just fine.

There's no real way to beat it without breaking the game. I support the idea of coming up with mechanics that encourage smaller fights, but these ain't it.

Edited by Inquisitor Kitchner, 13 August 2015 - 11:13 AM.

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#59 jezza

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 12:47 PM

This is a thing?

c, it's top tier


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#60 CivilWars

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Posted 13 August 2015 - 01:09 PM

It's because it's human instinct to form bigger and bigger social groups for protection.

If you have a game that is a sandbox and there's nothing stopping scaling up your resources then people will always eventually do this.

If you could only have 5 people in a system at one time for example, you could easily have a corp of 100 dudes and do just fine.

There's no real way to beat it without breaking the game. I support the idea of coming up with mechanics that encourage smaller fights, but these ain't it.

I totally agree. I am just saying it is time for all of us, the players, to take some responsibility for our own choices. If you like PVP, but have more than say 2k "friends" then you are part of the problem. I admit I am part of the problem. I also admit that I tell TRI leadership daily that we should be part of the solution instead, but I am just one man.



#61 Athryn Bellee

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 01:56 AM

This is a thing?


Yeah, it's the same as when you're in enemy FW space.



#62 Hendrick Tallardar

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 05:53 AM

As much as it pains me to say it Dog isn't terribly wrong. EVE has a people problem, and no amount of changes to game mechanics are going to fix that. Imagine how much different the sov null landscape would look if you were somehow limited to say 1k corp/alliance/blue list members. Yes, I know there would still be ways to circumvent it(once again player problem not mechanics), but people would get the local content they are looking for. Instead we choose to create massive blue lists, then cry there is nobody to shoot.

 

Fuck me. You got me to serious post.

 

There used to be those sort of limits, and despite the belief it'd somehow affect the social element people worked around it via third party tools.

 

Edit - IIRC there was an overview pack or something that worked around those previous limits until CCP realized it was dumb to have arbitrary limits.


Edited by Hendrick Tallardar, 14 August 2015 - 05:55 AM.

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#63 larowin

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 10:11 AM

:goonsay:

 

Kitchner is totally right here, people will always ball up.  The proper game design response then is to make it a) unimportant to have large numbers for sov warfare and b) make larger groups more unwieldy to deploy.  I still think that Endiesov (having flag planting contests determined by a large scale AT match between two alliances) was a better approach even if it did mean ~instanced combat~, but i don't think that the combination of Phoebe and Aegis are that far off.  From a design principles standpoint at least.


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#64 CivilWars

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:50 PM

There used to be those sort of limits, and despite the belief it'd somehow affect the social element people worked around it via third party tools.

 

Edit - IIRC there was an overview pack or something that worked around those previous limits until CCP realized it was dumb to have arbitrary limits.

 

 

Kitchner is totally right here, people will always ball up.  The proper game design response then is to make it a) unimportant to have large numbers for sov warfare and b) make larger groups more unwieldy to deploy.  I still think that Endiesov (having flag planting contests determined by a large scale AT match between two alliances) was a better approach even if it did mean ~instanced combat~, but i don't think that the combination of Phoebe and Aegis are that far off.  From a design principles standpoint at least.

I agree with both that PEOPLE choose to group up to "win" regardless of what CCP tries to do. My point is if WE are choosing to create the problem then WE need to take some/most/all of the blame, and stop asking CCP to fix it.



#65 AsHenDo

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:55 PM

I agree with both that PEOPLE choose to group up to "win" regardless of what CCP tries to do. My point is if WE are choosing to create the problem then WE need to take some/most/all of the blame, and stop asking CCP to fix it.


Eve players taking responsibility? I will believe it when they get jobs and move out of their parents' basement. Just lol.

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#66 AsHenDo

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:59 PM

And this is the conundrum every mmo faces: trying to make interesting conflict and narratives when you are catering to an audience of manbabies that only want pseudo-consequences to their actions. If they actually wanted to play out a good story and take some risks they would be living their lives, loving their wives and not playing video games.

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#67 AsHenDo

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 03:11 PM

Sorry that was kind of intense language and didn't mean to offend anyone

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#68 jezza

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 06:26 PM

says the scam shitizen backer who posts in the brown sea


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#69 AsHenDo

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 07:30 PM

I am undone :negativeman:

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#70 AsHenDo

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 07:31 PM

Also I took a real money risk, therefore I am a real man.

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#71 Ingen

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 07:34 PM

Delete Goons

 

Save Eve


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#72 CivilWars

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 07:48 PM

Delete Goons

 

Save Eve

I am not in favor of deleting goons as I personally feel they do provide content. I just wish they, and others, would reset all of their pets and make them stand on their own.



#73 AsHenDo

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 07:58 PM

Ban all the current players and let a new non-tainted generation play eve and have their own fun and make their own mistakes without a bunch of bittervets telling them how it's a bad game.

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#74 Cowbot

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 09:22 PM

Implying eve was ever a fun game lol



#75 larowin

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 10:05 PM

I agree with both that PEOPLE choose to group up to "win" regardless of what CCP tries to do. My point is if WE are choosing to create the problem then WE need to take some/most/all of the blame, and stop asking CCP to fix it.


Eve is first and foremost an economic simulation.

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#76 larowin

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 10:05 PM

:ullerm:

Edited by larowin, 14 August 2015 - 10:07 PM.

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#77 Dodeca Hedron

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 11:48 PM

the economic simulation thing isn't really as much of a joke as you think it is
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#78 larowin

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Posted 15 August 2015 - 10:04 PM

I'm being totally serious.

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#79 Inquisitor Kitchner

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Posted 16 August 2015 - 11:53 AM

Kitchner is totally right here, people will always ball up. The proper game design response then is to make it a) unimportant to have large numbers for sov warfare and b) make larger groups more unwieldy to deploy. I still think that Endiesov (having flag planting contests determined by a large scale AT match between two alliances) was a better approach even if it did mean ~instanced combat~, but i don't think that the combination of Phoebe and Aegis are that far off. From a design principles standpoint at least.


Thing is then EVE becomes a very different game.

I like EVE because you an choose to ignore things like skill and money and just gang up on people. The inevitable end result though is people gang up and things stagnate.

I think the better solution is actually to look at the causes of why real empires collapsed. It was because as time went on their holdings became unwieldy to manage. The Roman Empire fell as it was constantly under attack from all sides, the British Empire fell because it was unprofitable, the French Empire fell when everyone ganged up against them, others have fallen due to internal politics and civil strife.

I think that these should basically be emulated in the game so it makes running a huge Empire of players difficult but not impossible, and their enemies can harass the empire to the point where they can make money doing so but they can't use 100 guys to defeat 10,000.

If I sat down and thought about it I could probably flesh out my thoughts, but I'm not a game designer and no one cares what I think so it's not worth my time tbh. I will just let CCP blunder around pointlessly and hope they don't kill the game.

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#80 Daruna

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Posted 16 August 2015 - 12:35 PM

I actually just now read the op

This is the worst wet rag in a long while

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#81 Richter Belmont

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 05:20 AM

it's about ethics in video game diplomacy


Spoiler

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[18:22:55] leetcheese: im sure there's a gril out there that will tie you up and listen to trance with you

[23:24:58] Livonian: this is what zulu has become
[23:25:08] Livonian: a wasteland of unironic edgy atheists

[23:25:16] Livonian: and thin skinned 4channers crying about kicks


#82 Athryn Bellee

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 08:02 AM

I am not in favor of deleting goons as I personally feel they do provide content. I just wish they, and others, would reset all of their pets and make them stand on their own.


But they need the CFC to protect them from the great N3/PL menace! /s



#83 jezza

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Posted 17 August 2015 - 12:56 PM

I actually just now read the op

This is the worst wet rag in a long while

why do you do these things to yourself :<


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#84 Dog0fwaRR

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 09:25 AM

MRW I come back to this thread a couple weeks later.

 

 

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Edited by Dog0fwaRR, 18 August 2015 - 09:25 AM.


#85 Talbrys Narentyr

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 10:45 AM

MRW You come back 

 

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#86 Richter Belmont

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 10:53 AM

reaction images are so 2012

 

use emojis


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[18:22:55] leetcheese: im sure there's a gril out there that will tie you up and listen to trance with you

[23:24:58] Livonian: this is what zulu has become
[23:25:08] Livonian: a wasteland of unironic edgy atheists

[23:25:16] Livonian: and thin skinned 4channers crying about kicks


#87 Richter Belmont

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 10:53 AM

oh wait none of u have zulu squad GOLD so you can't


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[18:22:55] leetcheese: im sure there's a gril out there that will tie you up and listen to trance with you

[23:24:58] Livonian: this is what zulu has become
[23:25:08] Livonian: a wasteland of unironic edgy atheists

[23:25:16] Livonian: and thin skinned 4channers crying about kicks


#88 Richter Belmont

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 10:57 AM

0753-2.png


Spoiler

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[18:22:55] leetcheese: im sure there's a gril out there that will tie you up and listen to trance with you

[23:24:58] Livonian: this is what zulu has become
[23:25:08] Livonian: a wasteland of unironic edgy atheists

[23:25:16] Livonian: and thin skinned 4channers crying about kicks


#89 jezza

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 12:46 PM

:fire::fire::fire:


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#90 leetcheese

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 03:44 PM

nice meme


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#91 Inquisitor Kitchner

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 03:26 PM

oh wait none of u have zulu squad GOLD so you can't


How much is Zulu Squad gold? Do I get an icon next to my name so everyone knows I'm a gold member?


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#92 Ingen

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 03:29 PM

BTFU Richter, Zulu Gold is my gimmick joke.


공산주의가 이길 것이다.


#93 John Smith

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 03:39 PM

Some things change, but some things stay the same forever.



#94 Jinxit

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 03:40 PM

yes kitchner, it's a pink triangle

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#95 jezza

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 04:31 PM


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#96 leetcheese

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 04:36 PM

Some things change, but some things stay the same forever.

 

:ccp:


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#97 Anderron Shi

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 05:10 PM

Some things change, but some things stay the same forever.

h-hi, john smith



#98 Anderron Shi

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 05:10 PM

did pocahontas have good pussy




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