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#50 Talbrys Narentyr

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 08:54 PM

Seriously, it looks like all you need is a cloud of interceptors with the t2 (250km range one) loaded up with sebos and a mwd and orbit far enough away so you can't smartbomb the blob.  Get a  few fleets of these (only need 30 or so duders in each), load in some benny hill music and glhf.

 

From the other devblog" We are well aware that Nullsec empires have mastered the strategy of weaponizing their opponent’s boredom" so now we'll give you a way to weaponize your opponents lack of patience as well.


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#51 Dodeca Hedron

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:05 PM

Seriously, it looks like all you need is a cloud of interceptors with the t2 (250km range one) loaded up with sebos and a mwd and orbit far enough away so you can't smartbomb the blob. Get a few fleets of these (only need 30 or so duders in each), load in some benny hill music and glhf.

From the other devblog" We are well aware that Nullsec empires have mastered the strategy of weaponizing their opponent’s boredom" so now we'll give you a way to weaponize your opponents lack of patience as well.


If you do that then the counter is one guy at 0m with his far cheaper t1 mod
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#52 AsHenDo

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:15 PM

Yeah that's true, the counter to kiting fags is another module on the other team, forcing a fight or at the very least a war of jams.

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#53 jezza

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:33 PM

but once you can't get repped, it seems p easy to just grab a sniping ship and blap the guy sitting at 0


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#54 Dodeca Hedron

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:39 PM

It doesn't say it prevents moving, just remote assistance. Might be like hictors.

"Activating an Entosis Link also causes ships to become extremely vulnerable for the duration of the module’s cycle: the equipped ship cannot warp, dock, jump or receive remote assistance until the cycle completes."
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#55 jezza

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 10:08 PM

They need to add some mass like a hic bubble does or just make it like triage/siege


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#56 Dodeca Hedron

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 10:43 PM

I think Hic bubble actually decreases mass. Sov laser should prevent moving though, I agree.
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#57 jezza

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 11:14 PM

Oh yeah... Then is it just a straight "you just can't go that fast"? Because 100mn MWD hics move at a decent clip


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#58 Fallen

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:46 AM

pls contract your stuff to Fal1en in-game


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#59 el digin

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:02 AM

paitently awaiting my paycheck from CCP Games


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#60 el digin

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:26 AM

A couple tweaks:

 

The link module should be like a cyno, when you hit it a beacon shows up on overview, and you can't move.

4x cap speed for defenders is dumb.

Tweak cap speed based on the ship class, frigates 20, cruisers 15, battleships 10, caps 5. Risk/reward for dropping big ships.

Prime time should be extended to 6 hours max, I know a lot of you nerds don't like it but losing your shit while you sleep is retarded.

The amount of cap points will have to be tweaked occasionally to ensure that you get the proper sizing of fleets. You don't want 100% frigate wulfpax, or 100% fuck off-sized fleets.

 

Overall, this sov system is better, but people still don't have a good reason to defend their space.


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#61 leetcheese

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:34 AM

IMHO a better system than the proposed one:



Alliances can declare a 12 hour period of a day as their prime time.  This is any contiguous period of 12 hours EVE time.  


  1. Create a Sov Disruption Unit  - large enough that it can’t fit in a t1 frigate’s cargo hold, moderate cost (think t2 large bubble price range)

  2. SDUs are anchorable within a 100KM radius of an ihub.  If there is no ihub present, they are anchorable within 100km of any gate.  

  3. SDUs take roughly 15-20 minutes to anchor.  While anchoring, the ship deploying the unit is stuck in place.  If there is no IHUB in the system, an SDU onlines within 5 minutes.

  4. SDUs can only be anchored one at a time per constellation.

  5. Once a single SDU is online, it becomes invulnerable for 24 hours.  After that, the constellation will become vulnerable for a randomly contiguous period of 6 hours within the defending alliance’s prime time.  

  6. As more SDUs are brought online in a constellation, the period of constellation vulnerability grows.  If every system within a constellation has a SDU online, the constellation is completely vulnerable.  

  7. SDU hp grows as time passes after anchoring.  It’s easily killable for a small gang of 10-20 cruisers and frigates while onlining (think 5 minutes of shooting after clearing the field), but requires the dps of 100BS or 10 dreads or 1-2 supers after coming out of the 24 hour reinforce period.  If left up for days it will approach a maximum HP that would require a considerable force to destroy (moderately sized dread of super fleet).

  8. No offlining mechanic like SBUs, cannot be used as a safety net for blocking.

  9. Some sort of negative impact to sov levels also to incentivize people to destroy them or actively defend their space



Unrelated but needed changes:


Fix missile HP

Lower maximum fleet size to 100-150

Remove fleet warp

Increase minimum warp range to 200-250km

Increase time required in combat probing

Fix shield battleships

Nerf sentry drones

Restore titan tracking and subcap single target DD (heh)


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#62 larowin

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:42 AM

A couple tweaks:

 

The link module should be like a cyno, when you hit it a beacon shows up on overview, and you can't move.

4x cap speed for defenders is dumb.

Tweak cap speed based on the ship class, frigates 20, cruisers 15, battleships 10, caps 5. Risk/reward for dropping big ships.

Prime time should be extended to 6 hours max, I know a lot of you nerds don't like it but losing your shit while you sleep is retarded.

The amount of cap points will have to be tweaked occasionally to ensure that you get the proper sizing of fleets. You don't want 100% frigate wulfpax, or 100% fuck off-sized fleets.

 

Overall, this sov system is better, but people still don't have a good reason to defend their space.

 

ccp same remains best dev.  although I like the idea that it doesn't broadcast until the points start spawning.


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#63 larowin

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:48 AM

things that are great about the new system:

no structure shoot

increased transaction costs for coalitions

fucking terrain

it's super modular and that is seriously the most important bit

 

that said

there is still no real reason that i can understand to own space other than to build supers

but if that's the only reason, because you can own stations without owning the system, then it's more likely that a random system has a CSAA?

grasping at straws


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#64 Dodeca Hedron

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:09 AM

there is still no real reason that i can understand to own space other than to build supers

 

yes, but now there is no reason to even build supers


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#65 Weedlord BonerHitler

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 06:51 AM

plus /r/eve likes it

 

you know its bad then

 

Gevlon Goblin likes it too. Fuck this dumb game



#66 Don Peyote

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:33 AM

these changes are good (not perfect) and better than the current state of things in terms of the actual sov mechanics but if no meaningful buff to actually holding space is introduced they'll be meaningless

 

afk renter empires may be a thing of the past though

 

people are talking about how the changes make supers inconsequential but i'd say that if you're buying a super to grind sov what the FUCK is wrong with your life. I honestly think the current chain of capital escalation will remain, especially if the t3 rebalance makes a difference (it won't because 250mm railguns are still ogrepowdered) and people start flying BSes with triage more often. triage + bses > gets dreaded or Titaned on > gets supered or titaned on ad mortem. Obviously they'll also still be useful for ganks in lowsec or whatever but the question is will there be any supers to gank if people are pessimistic about these changes and stop buying them (the answer is yes probably)

 

sovereign nullsec needs a buff in line member income to create a proper risk/reward system and coupled with these changes suddenly the general state of nullsec is the healthiest it's been in a long time.


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#67 Badass

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:54 AM

Why would you capital escalate when the new mechanics encourage movement add on fatigue and supers really aren't that useful anymore
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#68 Talbrys Narentyr

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:54 PM

Yeah that's true, the counter to kiting fags is another module on the other team, forcing a fight or at the very least a war of jams.

That's assuming it actually leads to a fight and not just 30 on 30 intys waiting to see who gives up first.  And they don't have to even stay on the same structure, they can just run around hitting different structures until the defenders get tired of chasing them around.


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#69 larowin

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:45 PM

yes, but now there is no reason to even build supers

 

 APEX FORCE


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#70 larowin

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:47 PM

these changes are good (not perfect) and better than the current state of things in terms of the actual sov mechanics but if no meaningful buff to actually holding space is introduced they'll be meaningless

 

afk renter empires may be a thing of the past though

 

people are talking about how the changes make supers inconsequential but i'd say that if you're buying a super to grind sov what the FUCK is wrong with your life. I honestly think the current chain of capital escalation will remain, especially if the t3 rebalance makes a difference (it won't because 250mm railguns are still ogrepowdered) and people start flying BSes with triage more often. triage + bses > gets dreaded or Titaned on > gets supered or titaned on ad mortem. Obviously they'll also still be useful for ganks in lowsec or whatever but the question is will there be any supers to gank if people are pessimistic about these changes and stop buying them (the answer is yes probably)

 

sovereign nullsec needs a buff in line member income to create a proper risk/reward system and coupled with these changes suddenly the general state of nullsec is the healthiest it's been in a long time.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure phase 3 is going to be the carrot.  And that's cool, much better than either everything happening at once, or going the other way and letting people really settle in before the changes drop.


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#71 ocrumsprug

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 02:40 PM

That four hour window needs to (and probably will) go.

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#72 larowin

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 02:43 PM

That four hour window needs to (and probably will) go.

 

I'm not sure, honestly.  It's problematic, but the past few large wars have consistently settled into a period where everything is timed for moontime.  If de-weaponizing boredom is one of the goals, there needs to be some sort of mechanism for committing to an activity window.


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#73 Travis Uchonela

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 02:53 PM

That's assuming it actually leads to a fight and not just 30 on 30 intys waiting to see who gives up first. And they don't have to even stay on the same structure, they can just run around hitting different structures until the defenders get tired of chasing them around.


That is my biggest concern. I feel like there is the possibility of few fights and a ton of chasing around in inties trying to quickly space laser beacons. Why even fight at all if you're the small fleet?

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#74 Ingen

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:17 PM

I bet Star Citizen's sov system will be gr8.


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#75 Daruna

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:24 PM

If ccp actually does the shit Manny says with the reward revamp in null (deeper regions being more valuable, empire-connected regions being important to hold or at least raid) then I can see all of this work out really well

but the sov laser thing needs to seriously get looked at a lot closer before it goes live

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#76 Daruna

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:38 PM

Also leetcheese is getting blowd up in internal forums

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#77 Ingen

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 04:03 PM

Also leetcheese is getting blowd up in internal forums

 

Same thing happened with Phoebe if I recall.

 

PL has some smart fellers, but Leetchese Is Right.  I don't know who to believe.


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#78 Badass

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 04:12 PM

Leetcheese is right in that this new system is also flawed and personally I don't know if CCP will make good on their thing to reiterate

 

Still its better than what we have now 


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#79 Daruna

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:42 PM

of course it's flawed

It's stage 2 of 3 tentatively announced major mechanical overhauls

It's not even fucking done yet of course it isn't perfect

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#80 Daruna

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:44 PM

y'all niggas are doomsaying super preemptively

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#81 Travis Uchonela

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:44 PM

Pl.com is being mean to leetcheese send help

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#82 Ingen

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:45 PM

At what point is trying to revive a dead game really just necrophilia?


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#83 hello i am dan

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 06:04 PM

yes, but now there is no reason to even build supers

 

no idea why you'd punish supers for tanking the responsibility on using the sov lazor

 

like they are risking the most why nerf the time when theyre basically in anti-triage and are just asking to get facefucked?


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#84 Talbrys Narentyr

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 06:11 PM

no idea why you'd punish supers for tanking the responsibility on using the sov lazor

 

like they are risking the most why nerf the time when theyre basically in anti-triage and are just asking to get facefucked?

Because CCP doesn't play their own game.


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#85 leetcheese

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 06:22 PM

of course it's flawed

It's stage 2 of 3 tentatively announced major mechanical overhauls

It's not even fucking done yet of course it isn't perfect

 

best thing they could come up with was sov laser

 

"not perfect"


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#86 hello i am dan

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 06:57 PM

once again i was right

 

everyone told me to cool my jets the jump fatigue thing was a good thing for eve and the sov change is gonna follow up and its gonna be a wonderland for PVP

 

FUCKING LOL


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#87 Jinxit

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:25 PM

y'all niggas are doomsaying super preemptively

 

he he he


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#88 ocrumsprug

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 08:58 PM

I'm not sure, honestly. It's problematic, but the past few large wars have consistently settled into a period where everything is timed for moontime. If de-weaponizing boredom is one of the goals, there needs to be some sort of mechanism for committing to an activity window.


That is reasonable, but it would also suck for a USTZ alliance to be able to schedule everything for their prime time. Equally I wouldn't want to have to start a sov war @6pm Moscow time.

Possible this is a passive aggressive manner of telling single time zone alliances that their time is done, if they want to attack someone outside their TZ. Except that you only need one to defend.

8-12 hours would seem like a more reasonable window.

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#89 Ingen

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:26 PM

Surely the window should vary system to system based on the indices, right?  Would augment the dynamic of space that's used is hard to defend and space that's empty is easy to take.


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#90 larowin

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:41 PM

Surely the window should vary system to system based on the indices, right? Would augment the dynamic of space that's used is hard to defend and space that's empty is easy to take.


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#91 Ingen

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:42 PM

Haven't played the game in over a year.

 

So yeah I'm probably qualified to be a dev.


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#92 ocrumsprug

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:46 PM

Surely the window should vary system to system based on the indices, right?  Would augment the dynamic of space that's used is hard to defend and space that's empty is easy to take.

 

That would probably make the windows really manageable. If someone is holding space solely for nice looking borders and rarely sees anyone in it, you should be able to go attack it whenever you want.


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#93 leetcheese

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:54 PM

Haven't played the game in over a year.

 

neither have they


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#94 capqu

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 11:27 PM

slam dunk



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#95 Ingen

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 11:52 PM

neither have they

 

that was the joke I already made.  You literally just had to read one more line of the post.


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#96 leetcheese

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:31 AM

that was the joke I already made.  You literally just had to read one more line of the post.

 

you just got reddit'd


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#97 bdd

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:36 AM

le uptoker XD


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#98 Fallen

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:36 AM

neither have they

 

neither have you


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